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No more trade in the community?

_s4ao__
I’ve been collecting for a few years now, and at first, I wasn’t really aware of the collecting community or how trading worked, but once I discovered it, I really got into it and genuinely enjoyed it, even though I’m an OT8 collector myself (Stray Kids) 🤍 I did take a bit of a break recently 🤷🏻‍♀️ and now that I’ve gotten back into collecting, I’ve noticed how much the community and trends have changed. I feel like the fandom has gotten younger and younger, and at the same time, I also feel like the whole K-pop hype has died down a bit compared to a few years ago.. (2023~) And now, it feels like you basically get one tiny window to trade during a comeback, and then that’s it 😭 For example, when a new era comes out, you can usually find trades for cards from that specific album because everyone is actively collecting it at the same time, but try finding a trade for an older era? Good luck. Most people are either ghosting you, or they’re just selling and buying the specific cards they need 🤦🏻‍♀️ So if you collect older eras, trading becomes SO much harder. It almost feels like you have one month during a comeback where the trading community is actually alive, and then it just disappears. And honestly, that’s one of the things I miss the most about how collecting used to be.. With 4th gen, it kind of feels like they’ve been left behind They’re not getting as many new fans as they used to, because people are moving on to newer-generation groups like KATSEYE, ILLIT, CORTIS and others, which ISN'T a bad thing! Even Stray Kids, for example, seem to be getting a lot more hate lately, and personally, I feel like part of that comes from them not having the same huge, constantly growing fanbase they used to have.. I actually want to make another post about this because I think there’s a bigger conversation to have about how the K-pop community is changing. It feels like we’re slowly getting less of an actual community and more people who are fans because of the popularity or hype around a group, rather than because they genuinely connect with the group itself. I wouldn’t call them “fake fans” because I don’t think it’s that simple, but I feel like you get what I mean
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Comentarios (27)

mimiiimm
mimiiimm
yes!!!!! for me i mostly collect anton from riize and minji from new jeans with minji it’s actually pretty easy to collect her since new jeans is so popular but anton not so much and the big factor here is that i am from poland and also not 18 yet so i can’t really trade with people from other countries and in poland almost nobody is either selling or collecting riize so i’m really struggling here and my parents are also not really supportive of me collecting some “ pieces of paper with a photo of a man on it” so i can’t really ask them for help either there’s many more things that also make me struggle more with collecting riize but i guess those where the main ones
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
Yeahh I get you 😭😭 I actually feel like collecting newer groups can be kinda easier sometimes, especially if you start from the beginning since there aren’t THAT many pcs yet and you can just build your collection as they come out yk 😭 But your situation is actually making it 10x harder 💀 being under 18 + not really being able to trade internationally + parents being like “it’s literally a piece of paper with a man on it” 😭😭 girl I KNOW that struggle lmaoo And if you’re trying to stay within Poland, I can totally see why RIIZE is such a pain 😭 if barely anyone there is selling or collecting them, where are you even supposed to find Anton pcs 😭✋ I don’t really trade in person either tbh, so I get it. If you don’t have many collectors around you, collecting anyone can be HARD. There are some RIIZE BST/sale accounts for Europe on Instagram though, so maybe buying from Europe could be easier once you’re able to. But if you can’t really buy online either then yeahhh 💀 that doesn’t help much. And even trading isn’t completely free because you still have to pay for stamps and shipping, so sometimes buying is honestly easier 😭 So yeahhh I definitely get you. I think your situation makes collecting RIIZE even harder than what I was thinking when I wrote my message 😭😭 hopefully it gets way easier once you’re 18 and can trade internationally because Anton is NOT gonna collect himself bestie 💀🫶 lmaoo
mimiiimm
mimiiimm
i did buy some pcs from pocamarket once but my parents were a little mad and now we have the additional tariffs in europe so even if i order from outside eu the tariffs add up and it costs way more than it originally was supposed to 😭
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
Ohh don't you know about the bst comu on ig? Like, buying from other collector directly? It's usually even cheaper than poca
mimiiimm
mimiiimm
ik i did buy some pcs like that but there aren’t many riize collectors in poland at least that i know of
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
Try outside of poland? Like europe itself, shipping stays similar
puppym
puppym
holy shit you guys talk a lot
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
Lmaooo 😭
annaisanarchy
annaisanarchy
I completely agree, especially with your last paragraph. I feel like the phenomenon of pre-debut fans is also linked to this - how can you love a group when they have one piece of content and no music? People just want to chase trends and be able to say they were there first. I feel like older groups still have strong fanbases who actually love them, whereas newer ones have a mixture of genuine fans and people who only like them because they're popular.
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
Yeah, I completely agree! And honestly, I think this is a way more interesting topic than what I was originally talking about, because the trading part was mostly just me being annoyed that I can’t trade my cards anymore and they’re literally just sitting there 😭 But the more I think about it, the more I feel like the trading issue is just one symptom of a much bigger change happening in the K-pop community, I feel like there’s been a huge shift in what being a fan even means, k-pop doesn’t have the same kind of hype it had a few years ago, and I think 4th gen is starting to feel that shift.. Newer fans are obviously still coming in, but they’re much more likely to immediately move towards newer groups and newer sounds rather than discovering the older groups that built the current K-pop landscape 🤷🏻‍♀️ And I think the whole “pre-debut fan” phenomenon is actually connected to that, in older generations, being able to say “I was there before they were famous” had a completely different meaning, a lot of those groups genuinely started from nothing. They were living together in tiny, shitty dorms, had very little money, barely any recognition, and fans literally watched them slowly build their careers. BTS is probably one of the clearest examples of this, being a fan before they became massive meant that you had actually witnessed the whole journey 🙈 There was almost a certain pride in being able to say, “I was there when nobody cared about them.” 😭 Not in a “they were worthless” way, obviously, but in the sense that you supported them before anyone knew who they were., you weren't just joining a massive fandom once the group was already successful, you were there when there was barely a fandom to begin with, and I think that created a really different kind of attachment between fans and groups..
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
But with newer generations, that experience is becoming much rarer, groups can debut with huge budgets, massive companies behind them, insane production, international promotion and social media exposure from day one, so you don't really get the same feeling of watching a group go from absolutely nothing to becoming huge, and I think that's why I find the current obsession with being a “pre-debut fan” so interesting It feels like some people are almost trying to recreate that experience. They want to find the next BTS, the next Stray Kids, the next huge group before they become huge, because they didn't get that feeling with the groups they previously stanned. Once you’re part of a fandom with millions of people, you obviously lose that feeling of being one of the few people who discovered them early 🤦🏻‍♀️ And especially with 5th gen, nobody really knows yet who is going to define the generation. I feel like you need a few years before you can actually look back and say, “Okay, THESE were the groups that really dominated this generation.” So right now, I feel like some people are trying to stan basically everyone 😭 just so that if one of those groups eventually becomes massive, they can say “I was here since pre-debut” or “I supported them before anyone knew them.” But I also think this connects to the fact that K-pop itself is changing. The industry is becoming much more global and Western-influenced, and companies are obviously adapting to that. You can see it in the music, concepts, promotions, English releases, collaborations, social media strategies, literally everything. And I don't think that's necessarily bad, but it does mean that the K-pop experience older fans originally got into is slowly disappearing.. 😮‍💨
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
A lot of newer fans are discovering K-pop through this newer version of it, so to them, this IS K-pop. They aren't necessarily looking for the same things older fans were. And then you have older fans watching groups they’ve followed for years adapt their music and image to fit what’s currently successful, and sometimes it just doesn't feel like the same group anymore. 😭 And that's where I think the disconnect happens. Older fans can feel like they're losing the essence of what made them fall in love with K-pop in the first place, while newer fans are already more interested in groups that naturally fit this new direction. So when an older group tries to adapt, they can end up losing some of the people who loved their original identity without necessarily gaining the same level of attachment from newer fans I’ve also noticed this with people who became fans around 2022–2023. I feel like that was such a massive period of growth for K-pop, and so many people entered the community around then. Now we're reaching the point where a lot of those fans have been fans for around three or four years, and I feel like many are starting to either lose interest in their original groups, leave K-pop altogether, or move towards newer groups. Obviously the whole “3 months, 3 years” thing isn't an actual rule 😭 but I do think it's interesting how many people seem to go through a similar cycle after a few years
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
I am SO sorry it's THAT long lol.. I literally opened my note app cause I was SO MUCH inti the subject, no one never gets what I mean 🥀
annaisanarchy
annaisanarchy
Don't apologise for writing a lot, it was so interesting to hear what you had to say! I agree with the idea that being an early fan was much more meaningful in the past as you experienced a real journey where groups built themselves from the ground up, and with companies such as SM, YG, JYP and HYBE having taken over so much their groups are practically guaranteed success, meaning they lose an essential part of the journey that idols used to go through. Even back then I would say it's a little odd to claim to be a fan of a group before they've even debuted, but joining their path early on definitely had a lot more significance. I think the way that the major companies have taken over also makes it a lot harder for groups from smaller agencies to rise to the forefront, which is another factor contributing to the problem. And it's a vicious cycle, because people want to be there for whatever's successful, so they support the groups from larger agencies and ignore the nugus, in turn making it harder for them to rise to fame and adding to the commercialisation and instant success of so many k-pop groups. As for older groups adapting, that's definitely also an issue. I think they have to realise that newer fans don't really care about older groups and it would probably be best to focus on maintaining their previous fanbase, but it's understandable why they're chasing the trends because that's what's successful at the moment and of course they want a piece of that. It's quite a conundrum for them, and we have to hope they make the right choice, which most of the time they don't. I'm actually someone who became a fan in 2023, but I do agree with your generalisation overall. It does feel like a lot of people who became fans around the same time as me are starting to move on. And overall, it's all just contributing to the k-pop scene and its fans becoming weaker and less stable.
annaisanarchy
annaisanarchy
I'm not sure I properly replied to everything you had to say, you made so many interesting points and it was challenging to cover everything, but I would love to discuss this topic or similar ones more with you if you'd like that!
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
Yeeah, I really enjoyed reading your take, I especially agree with what you said abt smaller agencies, for bigger ones I think HYBE has been particularly good at adapting to the current market, maybe even the best at it, while for exemple, JYPe has struggled more to keep up despite having really famous groups, n prbly because they almost get away with doing the bare minimum promotion for their established groups because the fandom already knows when something is coming.. Smaller groups don't have that advantage, so without proper promotion, they barely get the chance to grow I also get your point about older groups adapting, I don't think they should ignore trends, but I wish they wouldn't lose their identity to it or just try to creat the next tiktok chorus, especially within title tracks. Sometimes it feels like it's is made around whatever is or will be trending on TikTok, while the B-sides feel much more like the actual band, they can be objectively great, but the tt can feel so disconnected from the rest of the discography, and I don't think it will age well too Another thing I really miss is interactions between different groups.. Everything feels much more controlled now, which is why I love Ytb content, behind-the-scenes, making-ofs, etc. You get to see much more natural interactions, and that’s a huge part of what makes kpop special to me. And about the 2023 fans, I think you got what I meant 😭 I find it interesting how differently people from the same wave ended up experiencing it!! Some seem to be moving on, while others explored different groups and gen and became even more invested. I feel like you're a good example of that, you have such a wide range of interests that you can actually see how the industry has changed over time, which probably makes it easier not to get bored with it 🤍 And yeah, I genuinely love discussing this with you! I feel like we really understand each other 🤭
stxry-enha
stxry-enha
@_s4ao__ THISSSSS OMG sorry I just finished reading all of this and I really resonate with it. Groups aren't starting from nothing and growing into something anymore, they're already hyped from the beginning and it's so much harder for me to connect with newer groups. I still enjoy their music, but I feel much less drawn to members, lore, and message of groups because they feel curated to go viral. I'm mostly into 5th gen for the dances now, with the exception of groups like Xlov, Boynextdoor, Close Your Eyes, and a couple others. I'm attracted to these groups because they're ones that feel genuine, but in a lot of the cases like bnd and cye, I feel like they're starting to lean into the trying to go viral part. Now, not to say that I hated their recent comebacks, in cye's case I actually really enjoyed Blackout, but it was such a switchup from Eternalt and Snowy Summer that I almost got whiplash😭😭😭I actually double checked the group name when I heard SOB for the first time it was so different. That kind of went off topic though, so I'm going to bring it to interactions. I feel like as the kpop industry progresses they push the relaxed street vibe (cortis, lngshot, etc) and again, although I find myself enjoying it sometimes a lot of it just feels like empty content. Even though the media that gets released is supposed to show more individuality and human characteristic, I also feel like a lot of newer fans are either very obsessive or sensitive.
stxry-enha
stxry-enha
@stxry-enha Enhypen is my ult group for example. I've talked to a lot of weird engenes before, but (also going back to another earlier topic) I'm a pre-debut fan of enha. I feel very connected because I-land came out in a time where I wasn't my best, and I will always say they saved me. I feel like I owe enha my support for as long as they're a group because of what they've done for me. With the recent Mina situation though, I feel extremely conflicted. I've never felt less connected to engenes than I do now. I was at the concert where she gave Sunoo the flowers for Ni-ki, we talked after soundcheck and she was so sweet, really excited to give the flowers to Ni-ki. Me and the friend I was with thought the gesture was adorable.
stxry-enha
stxry-enha
@stxry-enha So it was really surprising to see a couple days later that she had gone. I hadn't even realized she was getting hate for it. I had watched the Ni-ki live that supposedly "started it" and I took his words as words for the people in the front. Unfortunately me and me friend got up after soundcheck to get food so we lost our spots in the front. I was happy anywhere I was because I love enha, but it was frustrating watching engenes in the front have their lightsticks hang listlessly from their wrists while they recorded the entire time. That's how I took his statements as.
stxry-enha
stxry-enha
@stxry-enha WOAHHHHH OKAY JUST REALIZED HOLY UNNEEDED RANT, I guess the whole situation was weighing on me lol. Back to the older group stuff though
stxry-enha
stxry-enha
@stxry-enha I feel like a lot of new fans only focus on recent and upcoming comebacks, they don't want to collect older cards because they're less polished looking than recent pc's and they wouldn't want to trade for a group that they don't have that bond with. With older groups too though new kpop stans don't really listen or explore unless it's iconic (Gee - Girl's Generation) and then they only get on the train for scandals and disbandments. Scandals wise, the whole BTS and Cortis thing kinda miffed me. I feel like a lot of people just saw the clip without putting it into context and saw it as BTS body shaming them, which I didn't see. I thought it was concern. It seems to be a trend in recent kpop to see a 5 second clip and then formulate a whole elaborate opinion based on who explained it to you first. I can kinda get why the conclusion was made, but I feel like it wouldn't have blown up as much if people actually took some time to fact check. And oml disbandments. Kard was one of the first groups that hooked me into kpop in the 2018-2019 area, and it always did make me sad that they weren't more popular. But then they blew up in popularity and a bunch of people were talking about them when the disbandment was announced. But when I talked to most people who said they were sad to see them go, (since I was excited to finally meet some Hidden Kard's) they had maybe listened to one song and didn't know them members and had no intention of supporting their solo careers. And then their disbandment album (which I did like, I thought it was nice to include the solo acts) flopped and no one talked about it😭😭😭
stxry-enha
stxry-enha
@stxry-enha idk it just feels like a lot of kpop now is just what gets people buzzing for a week or two before the next "big thing" comes out, which will also fizzle out in a week or two
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
I think I’m really enjoying having this discussion with you! I also don’t want to romanticize how idols used to live either...  I’m actually really glad groups have better conditions now, can eat well, sleep properly, and have more money invested into them! Of course, there are still groups from smaller companies who struggle, but overall agencies invest much more into groups because it works better nowadays, especially with social media making it so much easier to gain attention. It’s just a completely different environment 🤷🏻‍♀️ What I also struggle with is that they sometimes feel too polished, even member relationships and “ships” can seem scripted to me... I know that’s part of the job, and obviously not everything is fake, but we used to feel like the music and the people came first, and everything else was built around that..  Now it feels like everything is designed to gain attention, and we’re not trying to stan robots 😭 We want to relate to actual people, and I think that’s why we can feel less attached to newer groups
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
That also connects to how music has changed, I’m probably biased because I’m very attached to older K-pop, but I do feel like even lore has become less important now, especially when groups move towards a more mainstream sound, you can really see it in some MVs too... they focus more on making something visually appealing and easy to consume rather than building the story or lore Obviously it depends on the agency and the group, but I do miss when groups had a really strong identity and actually stuck with their concept 🙈 That said, I also LOVE 5th gen dancing. They’re overall technically incredible, and I think it’s because trainees start so young and the competition is insane. They’re expected to be a main vocalist, main dancer, main rapper AND performer at the same time, when back in the day we really had more specialised members. You could have a rapper who was mainly there to rap, knew the choreography well enough to perform it, and would learn the basics of singing and dancing, but they weren’t necessarily expected to be amazing at everything. Now everyone is just so good at everything, and positions barely even exist anymore, even though that used to be such a big part of groups!! And I think that also ties into TikTok... songs are increasingly built around catchy hooks and 15-second moments that are easy to remember and turn into a trend. You can know a song without actually knowing the song because you only heard the part that went viral Most of the time B-sides feel much more representative of the group than the title track, while the title feels like it was specifically made to be catchy on social media 🥀 We used to also have catchy “la la la” parts but now the whole song feels built around the one hook that you’re supposed to remember
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
I’m also conflicted about the relaxed, street-style content cause I love seeing idols being funny and more comfortable, but I can't help but wonder how much of it is actually natural... every group seems to be best friends from the start, even though they literally didn’t choose each other 😭 That’s why behind-the-scenes, making-ofs and those little moments that aren’t necessarily made into a clip or a ship feel much more genuine to me ♡ I agree with you about newer fans being quicker to cancel too, I think when you’re less attached to a group, it’s probably easier to just drop them over one incident.. And with how widespread cancel culture and fandom wars are now, people sometimes seem more interested in finding something problematic or proving their group is better than actually enjoying the group 🤦🏻‍♀️ The Mina situation is a good example of that. From what I saw, Ni-ki’s comment really didn’t seem directed at her, and she was actually enjoying the concert and doing something really sweet for him. She became associated with the situation because she was a known fan, which I think is really unfair. And if you look at the clips from that area, the people constantly filming were much closer to what he seemed to be talking about... I can understand why an idol would rather see fans’ faces and reactions than a wall of phones 😮‍💨 So the amount of hate she received over something that wasn’t even aimed at her was honestly awful, especially knowing that you were actually there, must've been shocking for you.. And YES about older photo cards... I love that point because I think it’s really true. Older PCs weren’t always these perfectly styled selfies, you had weird poses, pouting, random expressions, photos from MV shoots... you could actually see more of the member’s personality. Newer PCs are beautiful, but sometimes they all have that same extremely polished selfie feeling
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
I also agree about people discovering older groups only when they become “iconic” or when they disband. You obviously don’t have to stan every older group, but I think knowing what previous generations did makes K-pop so much more interesting. Third gen looked back at second gen, second gen looked back at first gen, and so much of what newer groups do comes from what existed before them. I feel like that connection between generations is becoming weaker now And the BTS/CORTIS situation is another example of the whole short-attention-span thing. People see five seconds of a conversation, hear someone else’s interpretation, and suddenly there’s a whole narrative around it... and honestly, that’s not even specific to K-pop anymore. TikTok has basically made people expect instant context and instant opinions, we're not gonna get into bts scandal cause these guys will get cancel for everything but in this specific case, we know how the industry works and bts though on body image.. And even tho some members have been through difficult time, what they said was meant to be nice, let's face reality, in kpop industry or even Korea in general, people would rather be called really skinny than "healthy"?? Which btw is almost seen as being called fat there. KARD is kind of the opposite version of that, ofc so many people knew their hit songs and but not really who they were, and when they disbanded, suddenly everyone was talking about how sad they were... while some of those people barely knew the members and weren’t really going to support them afterwards anyways, it feels like people sometimes care more about the event than the artists themselves 🤦🏻‍♀️ same goes w hating and so on
_s4ao__
_s4ao__OP
Over all I just think that’s probably what bothers me the most about all of this. We have more access to K-pop than ever, but everything feels so temporary now... there’s always another comeback, another scandal, another viral moment, and then everyone moves on to the next thing. We’re more connected to the industry than ever, but sometimes I feel like we’re actually less connected to the artists